Kelemvorites returning from death
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Gwain
Kelemvorites returning from death
Though some may return from death when called apon I have often wondered how a follower of Kelemvor might rp dieing and then being raised. The way I've seen it is that he or she returns because it is not their time. The problem is that with the ethos of Kelemvor the corpse is always laid to rest, making anything but ressurection un char like for some. Is it then pliable to forget all that was once gained in a body and start new? or should one be able to recover their things without disturbing the remains?
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Rhelian
If I was a Kelemvorite priest, I wouldn't be raising anyone unless I was directed by my god. If I was a Kelemvorite who died, I would probably accept that my Lord had called me, and I had died. I wouldn't be seeking to return. If I *DID* return, I wouldn't be too happy with the people who, knowing my beliefs, decided to violate them and possibly rip me from the side of my God.
However, you'd have to work out what is feasible IC with your character.
Some things in the mud can't be done, depending on your faith - but that's personal choice. Rhel would never be a party to extremely dangerous or reckless magic, nor would she destroy Art. Other faiths have similar restrictions, it's just up to the player wether their character follows them or not.
However, you'd have to work out what is feasible IC with your character.
Some things in the mud can't be done, depending on your faith - but that's personal choice. Rhel would never be a party to extremely dangerous or reckless magic, nor would she destroy Art. Other faiths have similar restrictions, it's just up to the player wether their character follows them or not.
Well, I think allowances have to be made for the nature of the game. I wouldn't really expect someone to put a lot of effort into building a character rp wise, then some mob getting in a lucky hit and having them say , 'Damn, time to start from scratch.'
Keeping in mind that Kelemvor can't always be on to say , 'Get yourself raised.' his faith is all ready undermanned I believe, and it's not likely to grow larger if his followers are expected to die permanently.
Keeping in mind that Kelemvor can't always be on to say , 'Get yourself raised.' his faith is all ready undermanned I believe, and it's not likely to grow larger if his followers are expected to die permanently.
From what I understand is that its the God's choice (Any God for that fact) wether it is their faithfulls time or not. If I was a Kelemvorite that died, I would probably accept that it was my time and not seek a way back. BUT if it is not my time, the Lord Kelemvor would make me aware as such and to not seek a way back after being instructed by my God to do so is not the act of the faithful (How you wish to RP this is up to you).
As for Gwains thoughts about the tending of corpses. While I agree that Kelemvorite do lay the corpse to rest, they would only do so if it is their time. Most likely in FR, if Kelemvor made it known to a person who died that it was not their time, they would also make it known to the priest that was to raise them (more so if they where a Kelemvorite too). To bury a corpse of one whose time has not come to me goes against the faith of Kelemvor (which respects life as much as death).
The game is different in that many times we have to deal with our own corpse, where that might not be the case in FR. I would look at it as a test from Kelemvor. He has granted me life and now I must tend to my own earthly remains as a reminder of what I have and where I am going.
My thoughts are based more on the liberal Kelemvorite thinking, for those who wouldplay an elder priest/follower or one who is more inclined towards Jergal or Myrkul then their beliefs may be radically different to what I suggested above. There is no right answer, but if you believe you are doing what your char would do, then that to me is at least the right thing.
Have fun, enjoy it and see what happens
-Stayne
As for Gwains thoughts about the tending of corpses. While I agree that Kelemvorite do lay the corpse to rest, they would only do so if it is their time. Most likely in FR, if Kelemvor made it known to a person who died that it was not their time, they would also make it known to the priest that was to raise them (more so if they where a Kelemvorite too). To bury a corpse of one whose time has not come to me goes against the faith of Kelemvor (which respects life as much as death).
The game is different in that many times we have to deal with our own corpse, where that might not be the case in FR. I would look at it as a test from Kelemvor. He has granted me life and now I must tend to my own earthly remains as a reminder of what I have and where I am going.
My thoughts are based more on the liberal Kelemvorite thinking, for those who wouldplay an elder priest/follower or one who is more inclined towards Jergal or Myrkul then their beliefs may be radically different to what I suggested above. There is no right answer, but if you believe you are doing what your char would do, then that to me is at least the right thing.
Have fun, enjoy it and see what happens
-Stayne
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Dalvyn
- Sword Grand Master
- Posts: 4708
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:26 pm
- Location: House of Wonder, Waterdeep
There is a large difference between (1) following a religious roleplay as in choosing never to destroy any magical items or to try and not use magic recklessly and (2) following a religious roleplay where you are not supposed to be brought back from the dead.
OOCly, the first is a helpful guideline to make your character more 3-dimensional (more real), to help you answer the "What would my character do?" question in several situations, while the second is a rather harsh restriction. It amounts to "If your character dies, then so be it. Roll a new one."
Now, a player could choose to roleplay a Kelemvorite with all the religious beliefs, included the 'no raise/ resurrection' rule, but I don't think it's something that can be demanded, or even expected. That does not mean that a Kelemvorite priest should happily be performing 5 resurrections each day though, or that Kelemvorites should consider resurrection/raise dead as "a minor, temporary annoyance" (actually, no character, whatever the faith, should do that).
Kelemvorites might be expected to be more serious about the matters of death and resurrection than other characters though. Here's a (bad) reaction after a death (not pointing fingers here, but that's something I have witnessed several times):
(dead one) who
(dead one) tell priestonline Hey! It's myname. I died in areaname. Can you raise me, or at least get my things?
(priest) reply Sure. And you'll owe this-and-this.
Bad reaction from the dead one. You just died. And the first topic you think about is your "things". Hello? Who is speaking there? The character or the player? Would someone who has just died react in such a calm and reasonable manner?
Such a reaction is already bad in general, but it's especially bad from a Kelemvorite. A Kelemvorite might roleplay so that (s)he is eventually raised (because OOCly, that wouldn't really be fair to expect them to remain dead once they have died), but it shouldn't be such an immediate roleplay. A dead Kelemvorite might consider talking with others, seeking guidance from other Kelemvorites or friends (through tell), or even through prayers, starting a roleplay leading eventually to his/her being raised (but not asking to be raised immediately). A dead Kelemvorite might also choose to roleplay that (s)he wouldn't accept to be raised by a mortal, only by Kelemvor.
Bad reaction from the priest too. You're just about to use one of the most powerful prayers your god grants you. Try and put some more religious roleplay in it. If you are a priest of Waukeen, haggle the price of the resurrection. If you a priest of Bane, make it clear that, if you are to raise that person, (s)he should serve you as a slave for X days/months. What I mean is... this is just another opportunity for a roleplay. Use it in that way, do not spoil the opportunity with a simple 'Ok. I go there'. Also, think in character. Would your character, a priest of X, with his/her background and past story, bring back that person?
And, once again, this is especially true in the case of a priest of Kelemvor. I am not sure if those priests still get raise dead and resurrection, but if they do, they should certainly not make a habit of raising people. It's akin to a priest of Tyr stealing the money for the poor from the alms bowl or a priest of Shar openly recruiting followers for the Lady of Secrets on a market square: that's the worst thing such a character could do, something that is opposite to the beliefs of his/her Church. In the case of such a character, I would think that it is not unreasonable to expect that he wouldn't perform any resurrection, except on Kelemvor's order of course.
Alright. I got a bit side-tracked there, but to sum up my opinion:
- if you are a priest of Kelemvor, do not raise/resurrect people without a very very very good reason and certainly a long roleplay.
- if you are a dead follower of Kelemvor, you might create a roleplay that would eventually lead to your being raised, but try not to ask about it immediately (and perhaps, even, tell those who were with you that you want to think and meditate about coming back, that they shouldn't raise/resurrect you immediately, that you want guidance from Kelemvor first), but I don't think you can be expected to follow the "I died, I will remain dead since my character would never accept to be raised" rule to the letter.
OOCly, the first is a helpful guideline to make your character more 3-dimensional (more real), to help you answer the "What would my character do?" question in several situations, while the second is a rather harsh restriction. It amounts to "If your character dies, then so be it. Roll a new one."
Now, a player could choose to roleplay a Kelemvorite with all the religious beliefs, included the 'no raise/ resurrection' rule, but I don't think it's something that can be demanded, or even expected. That does not mean that a Kelemvorite priest should happily be performing 5 resurrections each day though, or that Kelemvorites should consider resurrection/raise dead as "a minor, temporary annoyance" (actually, no character, whatever the faith, should do that).
Kelemvorites might be expected to be more serious about the matters of death and resurrection than other characters though. Here's a (bad) reaction after a death (not pointing fingers here, but that's something I have witnessed several times):
(dead one) who
(dead one) tell priestonline Hey! It's myname. I died in areaname. Can you raise me, or at least get my things?
(priest) reply Sure. And you'll owe this-and-this.
Bad reaction from the dead one. You just died. And the first topic you think about is your "things". Hello? Who is speaking there? The character or the player? Would someone who has just died react in such a calm and reasonable manner?
Such a reaction is already bad in general, but it's especially bad from a Kelemvorite. A Kelemvorite might roleplay so that (s)he is eventually raised (because OOCly, that wouldn't really be fair to expect them to remain dead once they have died), but it shouldn't be such an immediate roleplay. A dead Kelemvorite might consider talking with others, seeking guidance from other Kelemvorites or friends (through tell), or even through prayers, starting a roleplay leading eventually to his/her being raised (but not asking to be raised immediately). A dead Kelemvorite might also choose to roleplay that (s)he wouldn't accept to be raised by a mortal, only by Kelemvor.
Bad reaction from the priest too. You're just about to use one of the most powerful prayers your god grants you. Try and put some more religious roleplay in it. If you are a priest of Waukeen, haggle the price of the resurrection. If you a priest of Bane, make it clear that, if you are to raise that person, (s)he should serve you as a slave for X days/months. What I mean is... this is just another opportunity for a roleplay. Use it in that way, do not spoil the opportunity with a simple 'Ok. I go there'. Also, think in character. Would your character, a priest of X, with his/her background and past story, bring back that person?
And, once again, this is especially true in the case of a priest of Kelemvor. I am not sure if those priests still get raise dead and resurrection, but if they do, they should certainly not make a habit of raising people. It's akin to a priest of Tyr stealing the money for the poor from the alms bowl or a priest of Shar openly recruiting followers for the Lady of Secrets on a market square: that's the worst thing such a character could do, something that is opposite to the beliefs of his/her Church. In the case of such a character, I would think that it is not unreasonable to expect that he wouldn't perform any resurrection, except on Kelemvor's order of course.
Alright. I got a bit side-tracked there, but to sum up my opinion:
- if you are a priest of Kelemvor, do not raise/resurrect people without a very very very good reason and certainly a long roleplay.
- if you are a dead follower of Kelemvor, you might create a roleplay that would eventually lead to your being raised, but try not to ask about it immediately (and perhaps, even, tell those who were with you that you want to think and meditate about coming back, that they shouldn't raise/resurrect you immediately, that you want guidance from Kelemvor first), but I don't think you can be expected to follow the "I died, I will remain dead since my character would never accept to be raised" rule to the letter.
Although I have yet had to face this actual situation in my 400+ hours on Timaeus there are a couple of things you can do to handle a Kelemvor's death on the MU* and still stay somewhat within the faiths outlook on raising.
Personally if Timaeus were to get killed I would not ICly send any tells to anyone about him being killed. If I was alone when he died it would be random luck if someone were to find his body and then attempt to have someone raise him. If no one found the body I would sit in the Realms of the Dead and wait for Kelemvor or another God. Perhaps even sending in a roleplay application to arrange something with Kelemvor at his convienence. If I was with people when he died it would be their decision to get him raised or not and then he would roleplay his reaction depending on who raised him. Basically if he was raised I would roleplay it as Kelemvor allowed him to leave his realm even if a player of another faith did the raising.
As for the remains being laid to rest that only really applies if a Kelemvor finds the remains. ICly my character will not 'take' responsilbilty for anyones remains because I would bury them. I have gotten remains before for characters who are already raised or reincarnated and allowed them to get the possessions before burying the corpse. And have gotten one corpse where they were turned over to someone of the faith of the dead character to handle burial or raising as was the case.
And lastly as a Kelemvor follower I, as a player, am prepared to accept a possible permanent death and I do not needlessly go out and just carelessly attack everything. I'd like to never have to face this problem with Timaeus or with any of my characters actually. I only have one character death from a mob in a little over 1500 hours on all my characters combined and two roleplayed deaths, with one of those resulting in the character being dead now since December.
Personally if Timaeus were to get killed I would not ICly send any tells to anyone about him being killed. If I was alone when he died it would be random luck if someone were to find his body and then attempt to have someone raise him. If no one found the body I would sit in the Realms of the Dead and wait for Kelemvor or another God. Perhaps even sending in a roleplay application to arrange something with Kelemvor at his convienence. If I was with people when he died it would be their decision to get him raised or not and then he would roleplay his reaction depending on who raised him. Basically if he was raised I would roleplay it as Kelemvor allowed him to leave his realm even if a player of another faith did the raising.
As for the remains being laid to rest that only really applies if a Kelemvor finds the remains. ICly my character will not 'take' responsilbilty for anyones remains because I would bury them. I have gotten remains before for characters who are already raised or reincarnated and allowed them to get the possessions before burying the corpse. And have gotten one corpse where they were turned over to someone of the faith of the dead character to handle burial or raising as was the case.
And lastly as a Kelemvor follower I, as a player, am prepared to accept a possible permanent death and I do not needlessly go out and just carelessly attack everything. I'd like to never have to face this problem with Timaeus or with any of my characters actually. I only have one character death from a mob in a little over 1500 hours on all my characters combined and two roleplayed deaths, with one of those resulting in the character being dead now since December.
AKA Tycho, Lamorak, Kayne, Uthric
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Rhelian
In clarification I should state that it was not a hard and fast rule of being dead and staying that way. The point I was trying to make was that if my character (assume I have a Kelemvorite) personally was in a situation where they died, I would do as Timaeus pointed out - not try and rush back to life. If my things go, they go. I personally would wait until there was a chance to roleplay with Kelemvor, or an imm controled Kelemvorite mob to return from the dead. And if it happened more than twice, my character would stay dead, period.
If travelling companions brought me back to life, I would seek out their reasons and then make my own beliefs known to them, and then try to seek a RP oppertunity with a controlled mob or a respected priests of Kelemvor to see if I was supposed to be back in the mortal realm, and if so, what Kelemvor had planned for me.
However, these are just my personal opinions on that aspect of a faith, and as such are just suggestions Harsh, kinda, but still it would fit the RP well.
If travelling companions brought me back to life, I would seek out their reasons and then make my own beliefs known to them, and then try to seek a RP oppertunity with a controlled mob or a respected priests of Kelemvor to see if I was supposed to be back in the mortal realm, and if so, what Kelemvor had planned for me.
However, these are just my personal opinions on that aspect of a faith, and as such are just suggestions
Harsh, kinda, but still it would fit the RP well.-
Dalvyn
- Sword Grand Master
- Posts: 4708
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:26 pm
- Location: House of Wonder, Waterdeep
I would rather consider the reaction "If I die, I don't send tell, even if I was with other people" a spoiled opportunity at roleplaying something different, but everyone's entitled to their opinion. I think it would be nice to roleplay through tell and talk about why you do not want to come back (whether you want to follow the rule "I am dead, I stay dead" or you want to wait for Kelemvor or another god to log on, or you just want to have some roleplay before being raised).
There's another point that can be brought up too about this reaction. According to the PhB description of the raise dead (and resurrection I guess, although I have not checked), the spell automatically fails if the soul does not want to be brought back. It's a bit hypocritical to let someone raise you only to yell at them that they shouldn't have done that, especially when you can state (through tell) that you do not want to be raised. I have seen some priests contact the dead and make sure that (s)he wants to be raised before casting the spell, and I think that's a very good thing to do in general - and that is generally enough to avoid raising angry Kelemvorites.
There's another point that can be brought up too about this reaction. According to the PhB description of the raise dead (and resurrection I guess, although I have not checked), the spell automatically fails if the soul does not want to be brought back. It's a bit hypocritical to let someone raise you only to yell at them that they shouldn't have done that, especially when you can state (through tell) that you do not want to be raised. I have seen some priests contact the dead and make sure that (s)he wants to be raised before casting the spell, and I think that's a very good thing to do in general - and that is generally enough to avoid raising angry Kelemvorites.
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Rhelian
Just had to put in this: hehe XDRhelian wrote: Rhel would never be a party to extremely dangerous or reckless magic
I think that the way Dalvyn put it gives many good reasons and all in all, just to emphasize this, heavy RP would be put in for a Kelemvorite's returning to the living. Perhaps it could be an event, perhaps they are asked by their lord to return to the dead. (maybe when the new realm of the dead ever gets built there could be a Kelemvor mob that would speak to Kelemvorites and tell them it is not their time). It is hard to go against the tenants of your faith, especially when it could possibly mean permanent death for your character. I would honestly always consider that to be the final OOC sacrifice.
Glim asks Gwain 'Can I be on the watch?!?'
Gwain raises an eyebrow.
Gwain seems to display a look of complete horror for a second...
Gwain raises an eyebrow.
Gwain seems to display a look of complete horror for a second...
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Serge
Kelemvor and death.
I first want to say that all ideas here make good and valid points. From my experience as a priest of Kelemvor, we don't have the ability to raise the dead, and probably shouldn't. As for being killed as a Kelemvorite, I agree with the idea that if your with people, you should allow them to raise you without interfering. Not all people should have the ability to speak with the dead, and perhaps not all spirits wish to speak with people. But, if I was raised, I wouldn't show anger, but happiness that the person that saved me was an instrument of my gods will, showing me that I should live. I doubt kelemvor would have allowed me to be raised, unless he wished it.
Serge Varnok
Serge Varnok
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Jethro
Kelemvor and Reincarnation
Not to long ago I decided I want to follow Kelemvor and know that its not right for me to reincarnate after dieing or to even get raised by a priest. So will I have to wait for kelemvor to get on and raise me, I dont wanna "sin" or get off on the wrong foot.
Thank you,
Jethro
Thank you,
Jethro
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Gwain
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Jethro
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Gwain
It does not hurt to send in an application but, don't forget to be patient and wait. Your prayers to your respective diety are sent to a specific prayer board for that diety to see. Things like Timezone difference and bust real world schedules are factors that have to be accepted and understood.
Just because it seems to take awhile does not mean that nothing will happen. IC prayers do go through, you just have to be patient and understand that eventually things will be worked out appropriately. Consider it a test of your own faith to see how faithful you are to your cause.
Patience is an old man that talks to rocks.
Just because it seems to take awhile does not mean that nothing will happen. IC prayers do go through, you just have to be patient and understand that eventually things will be worked out appropriately. Consider it a test of your own faith to see how faithful you are to your cause.
Patience is an old man that talks to rocks.
Rhelian wrote:If I was a Kelemvorite priest, I wouldn't be raising anyone unless I was directed by my god. If I was a Kelemvorite who died, I would probably accept that my Lord had called me, and I had died. I wouldn't be seeking to return. If I *DID* return, I wouldn't be too happy with the people who, knowing my beliefs, decided to violate them and possibly rip me from the side of my God.
However, you'd have to work out what is feasible IC with your character.
Some things in the mud can't be done, depending on your faith - but that's personal choice. Rhel would never be a party to extremely dangerous or reckless magic, nor would she destroy Art. Other faiths have similar restrictions, it's just up to the player wether their character follows them or not.
My personally opinion is, as a player with a character that's got a character applying to join Kelemvor's faith, that she will want to come back, should she ever die, so that she can continue to serve Kelemvor. She's an elf, after all, so she believes, or will believe, that she can serve him for many hundreds of years to come.
Yes, I know Kelemvor is a 'human' deity, but I kinda like being a little different
Windows 95: n.
32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.