This item is out of stock now

[Brar]

Anybody care to understand how that works?

I've been tryin to buy a certain piece of armour that comes in very limited supply every copyover, I've been first there the 8th last reboot... But everytime those items are out of stock, I tried during peaks hours, when I was alone online, during several hours non stop, during 2 days once... and they are getting in stock at a moment or another, for everytime I finished to log back to find them sold and not available anymore

The possession of the armor in itself thus a bad feeling for nostalgic reason is not that important, but I don't understand the system behind that out of stock phrase from the merchant and that is really annoying to me.

Anybody who knows care to explain it or do I label that as another FK mystery?

Brar

[Athon]

http://www.forgottenkingdoms.org/builde ... lshops.php

Look to the bottom of the page, beneath the link to the Danilo code example.

If there are 30 blue velveteen breeches in the game already, then while the characters see this item on list, Danilo will be out of stock when they go to buy the item.

Essentially, each shop has a number set for its stock. If there are an equal amount or more of this item currently in the game somewhere in the world, the mob will say it is out of stock.

At least this is how I've always understood the stocking system - it could have changed since I last knew. But more than likely, that armour is set to zero for some reason or is already in the game when you try to purchase.

This used to be a huge deal with spell components and their stock because player dwellings would stockpile 100s of a component and effectively out-of-stock the game, even though they weren't online. A similar case could be happening with the armour you're trying to purchase.

[Selveem]

Now Brar will be on the bandwagon suggesting that out of stock be fixed!

<3

[Eltsac]

The problem with Brar's piece of armor he wanted to buy :

When trying to locate it magically in game, we could only find one in a storeroom and one on the merchant. Yet it was out of stock
(and it's an item only sold to ranger / druids / followers of correlon ; limited supply at the vendor at a copyover, so I guess considering the limitations to buy it, it would not be 'out of stock' with one other instance in game )

Plus he tried to buy it being the only one connected, and it was out of stock for him. But someone else managed to buy it!

sounds buggy...

El

[Lathlain]

I have noticed some areas having slipped through the net, where the builder mistakenly set the stock level as 1 without realising what the impact would be. The chances are that this is true of the item in question, in which case yes - this is definite bug report material. The same applies to any other issues with vendors like this!

[Enig]

I've been thinking about the whole 'out of stock' thing for a while now and there is one sort of strange idea I've come up with; the MUD's size might be partially to blame.

Each shopkeeper has to keep one of every item they sell in their inventory, though they might hand out that last item if it comes down to it, I'm not quite sure. But let's say there's ten shopkeepers each selling 'gnat leather armour'; if the item becomes out of stock at 9, or maybe even 10, all of these shopkeepers will be perpetually out of stock. Likewise if we have 50 shopkeepers selling 'a flask of water' then there's at least 49 flasks towards the limit in the game right at copyover without any PC involvement at all.

[Eltsac]

Brar here, but don't have access to my pc and she'll get mad at me again if I log her out, I will make a complete bug reports later tonight for those items.

I was thinking the same thing as Enig, and maybe this is what some components to be always out of stock even when alone online and being unable to locate object the item in the game but on shopkeepers.

Or maybe there is another bug concerning the calculation of "stock" for certain items.

[Zorinar]

I believe we have talked about this a lot in other threads. I believe I remember wizards being accused of whining too much or something of that nature. This is a real issue, and it can be a total nightmare for spell casters. There are components that are so hard to find that people have to stop casting some spells, and I am not talking about level 9 spells, but low level simple spells. It really does take the fun out of a class when you have spells available but you cannot cast them. I'm sure fighters would be disappointed if they could train up shield bash, but couldn't find a shield to use it. I suggest generally resetting the vendors each reboot.

[Selveem]

I just don't see the need for the 'out of stock' option, as a whole. Really, I don't feel such a thing has any place on a game where more than one person plays. Makes sense if you're talking about single-player immersion, but when you start trying to regulate (whether intentionally or not) 20+ players at a time, you're going to run into issues over simple things like this.

[Llanthyr]

Reviving an old thread and an old bugbear with it. The out of stock option seems fairly redundant. If we don't want players to buy certain things, it can be removed from said merchants. Having things going out of stock when there is only 1 player online is bad. I know all about the IC reasonings for it, but that's for in game conversation and rationalising, not here. Does this really benefit the game, besides having the frustration of going "UGH!" after you've found something you've been looking for?

So, you'll argue that having items go out of stock prevents people from hoarding up. I'm certain the reverse is happening. Because more often than not, as a spellcaster especially, I'm tempted to hoard up components just in case I need it next time, because it takes so much effort just to find a single component. And - that's barely enough for one spell. Most spells take at least 2 or more components to cast.

From the sentiments expressed from the replies, I know I cannot be the only one who thinks that this idea is not implemented very well. I am not certain how easy/hard it is to remove the 'out of stock' code, but if it does not take a lot of effort, I am all for getting rid of it.

[Brar]

I'm agree with Llanthyr...

Today, any component is so easy to get while hunting outside of shops combined with the new consumption rate and the fact that you don't need to hoard them anymore, I don't see the need for vendors being out of stock (I still think there is a bug somewhere about that stuff too..)

I mean, if someone want to pay 5 or more plat for a component he have one mob to kill to get, then let them do so.

And if others prefers to hunt and hoard them for free then let also them do so

The more options, the more happy people

Brar

[Eltsac]

I'm up for raising components's stock limits too...
There is not much to earn for the game in components stock limitation, it only :
- incite players to hoard them, increasing the problem. Players would not hoard them if they knew they could get them whenever they need.
- fustrates players who get stuck because needing some components rapidly

Let the price be what will make player chose between paying for a components or gathering it for free

El

[Raona]

I'm moving this to suggestions. Should the quantity limits/counts be removed completely, or made to only impact pricing (expensive to buy, cheap to sell, when there are a ton out there)?

[Eltsac]

My question would be :

What would be a good reason to keep limits on items?

I don't know about variable price... what would you base the price on?
Number of that item in game? then price would change with the number of players on?
Plus some components are easily accessible but yet not the more present in game (ones that requires a command or entering a room to spawn)
Would seems rather difficult to have a good pricing system to me.

El

[Harroghty]

Are there other items beyond components for which this has become a problem?

I feel that some of these comments seem to suggest a conspiracy afoot to limit access to certain items. More than likely, however, limited item numbers have more to do with a builder's oversight than they do with a builder's foresight. We can easily address items for which this is a real problem.

[Eltsac]

I have seen some problems with items like elven chainmail set that was out of stock even when logging on alone (though I didn't check lately).

I clearly understand there is no conspiracy.
There might be some mistakes when building, plus some changes that also affect how easily the out of stock limit of an item in reached (the number of shop keeper for a specific item increase the number of this item by one in the game each time, the storerooms increses the number of items in game, the addition of some NPC droping an item also increases the number of that item in game, ...).

The main problem is often on components simply because the only items that would be hoarded are usable items, and most of them are components.
This has an impact with some quests asking you to go buy item x or y that are components and that are not findable.

Just wondered if there was some good reason to keep a item limit in game for items?
Having no limit will incite player not to hoard items.

El

[Harroghty]

I think about two things when I determine the limit for an item: the number of those items that could be reasonably produced and then the desired scarcity of an item.

So, if I were to make a cutler, he would perhaps sell five swords of which there could be 50-100 of each type in the game. For one man to produce 250-500 decent swords in his life is about right (maybe even a little generous).

Now components are a different animal.

[Selveem]

So, if I were to make a cutler, he would perhaps sell five swords of which there could be 50-100 of each type in the game. For one man to produce 250-500 decent swords in his life is about right (maybe even a little generous).

Except for the fact that Mobs live forever. If you want to talk about letting evil PCs kill well-known NPC vendors, I'm all for the mobs that replace them having new stocks.

Additionally, who's to say a vendor only sells the stuff THEY craft. Especially in big cities. I'm sure they also have additional help inside the shops at the forges.

[Eltsac]

Well to me, most bought item are :
- consummables (components, potions)
- items with the symbol of your faith or guild... you wear waiting for better items or to show your dedications
- pure rp item (non magical clothing and the like)

With the great random loot system, I think most used arms and armors will be those generated items, either found or sold to and bought from merchants, and those aren't affected by the standard stock limit

But maybe I am wrong ?

Components have stock limits problems.
for the two others, I understand the IC limits you want to add, it is some good IC reasons, but then, I have never seen those limits reached for such types of items, thus the limits not being useful in those cases.

So my thought was more :
if stock limits are a pain for some items, and not really useful for others as they are never reached, maybe it's just easier to desactivate them...
but maybe it's not an easy solution at all we can find a better solution affecting only the components

El

[Selveem]

Not to mention there are spells that assist with crafting out there that would exist in FK's world. One of which is fabricate which is an instantaneous level 5 wizard/sorcerer spell that takes materials and crafts a weapon or armor of 10 cubic feet per level per round.