Change of faith

Arathin · Post by **Arathin** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:25 pm

Alright, just something I've witnessed lately and it's beginning to bother me...........

When someone prays to a god and then just gets tired of waiting for a response, I seem to notice them just changing their minds and praying to another for a a quicker answer....

What is the policy on this, as in FR I doubt this would be hailed very smart for anyone to do....?

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:39 am

Personally, as a HP I find if someone gets impatient for me and immediately changes their mind I simply say they were never truely devoted to my goddess in the first place, and likely are not to the new god or goddess. I do not think it says anything good about the character, or the player. People need to respect that people have real life responsibilities too. If you are truely devoted ic and ooc to having your character follow a god, you would wait years to do so.
Just my opinion

~Danica

Llanthyr · Post by **Llanthyr** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:03 pm

I disagree on this. Some people might decide to change to a more active faith, with a more active deity. Some decide that since they have devoted so much to their character, they'll stick on. You'll have to admit that after praying and 1 month of waiting, sometimes a question really strikes you. "Is the deity really interested in getting followers at all? Is it worth my time waiting and waiting?"

Here's a suggestion. After 1 month of waiting, if you do not get a reply, send in an email of application to request a following of the faith you want to get into.

Isaldur · Post by **Isaldur** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:20 pm

I think anyone who wants to wear a magical symbol of a god better be a zealot who is prepared to do whatever it takes, including waiting when people don't have time. Anyone can pay lip service, or wear some nonmagical symbol and say they follow a god, which most people in Forgotten Realms do. Only the most devout get the neat magical things, and if you are switching deities without any intense RP and plot, especially drastic switching, then it won't be looked well upon by most. (I.E. wanting to follow a lawful god, then deciding to follow a chaotic god, good then evil, etc.)

When it comes down to it, if you want to follow a different god just make another character. It's not that hard and saves your current character the trouble as being labeled in any way.

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:08 pm

To be in service to a chosen diety does not mean one need wear a symbol as long as one rps the ethos and ways of a diety and shows the patience needed to be a follower one should be able to endure a slight wait. Any faith requires rp and by following a pattern of rp you already show devotion. Its not about wearing a symbol or special items to show service to a diety by actually offering up the rp neccesary to be a follower.
I mean that faith itself is a reward, it adds to rp and it strengthens resolve and gives a moral ground for an rp to stand on. The wait should not be given up at all because then we give up on a path in life icly. If one wants to do that they should rp the impact of such a severing and have a good reason set in mind and take time to consider what will be when they make the decision to abandon the path of a diety and a higher power of pure divinity.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:35 pm

A month? I have two characters one who waited a year, and one who waited nearly a year. :) I would not rush to change deities after a month.

I love what Gwain said. A symbol is not a right, but an honor. By rping the following of a deity well, you earn your symbol. Sometimes an imm, or a high priest cannot see that, and you wind up having to wait. Patience is one of the best things in the world to have when you truely want something.

Not all of us are from America, or work 9-5 shifts. Not all of us are child free, some of us have small children running about. (Stinks for them! :P) You have to understand and respect that. Lately time flies so fast in my world I blink my eye and a month is gone. I can't even believe how old I am anymore. I cannot see a month as such a long time to wait for a symbol. Also remember YOU as the hopeful are not exactly available when we the high priests are. Or the immortals are. If you can understand that you the questee do not have the time to sit around and wait for the HP or imm, you should understand the HP or imm does not have the time to sit around and wait for you. :)

Personally I have a little purple notebook, listed with hopefuls, questees, what quest was given, what day. When they sought me, when I symbolled, or why I can't. :) Of course, not everyone is as much of a dork as me, but what I am trying to say is most times it is a matter of waiting to catch the right time where both parties are not preoccupied.

The wait for a symbol also gives you many roleplay opportunities, beyond the ever famous roleplaying being upset not having one yet. :)

There are so so so so many things to take into consideration on this subject. Try to think of it from both ends. :D

~Danica

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:15 pm

I waited 3 RL months for Andreas's symbol. During that time, I still RPed his faith in Helm.

Faith isn't like a pair of socks. You don't change it every day. Either your character truly believes in their chosen deity and wants to serve, or they don't. Joining a faith because the deity is "active" isn't a good reason to do so. The most important reason behind joining a faith should be how it fits your character's roleplay.

Personally, I don't think much of people who hop around from one faith to another. It generally shows a LACK of faith.

Hannarr · Post by **Hannarr** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:28 am

Three months' wait? *One year's* wait? Boy, am I glad y'all have become more lenient!

I think that some of the deity switching may come from new players/PCs not having a good idea of who they are when they start. The level 10 baseline for asking to follow a deity should take care of some of this, but it is possible to hit that level pretty quickly, and to do so without really having established the character.

Some of it as well may come from the, IMO, contemporary Western materialistic view of religion. Even IRL it is not uncommon for a deity to be worshiped as a "great Coke machine in the sky": put in the right coins, push the right buttons, and get the good stuff (be that stuff a holy symbol or a piece of afterlife real estate or simply peace of mind). Add polytheism to that underlying materialism within a game situation, and trying one machine after another to find the one that contains the "best" stuff is understandable (though not admirable or indicative of a solid concept of RP).

Also, there does appear to be a heavy emphasis on religion and worship within FK. That is a good thing; after all, religion is one of those grand ordering principles of the processes of being human and making sense of the world. However, I can see that for some the desire to quickly "fit in" may lead to a rushed and ill-considered choice about which deity to commit to.

I was fortunate in a way that Hannarr was already an established character, *and* that I have a good background in non-monotheistic religion.[1] More importantly, though, I read through the help files on deities a number of times before making this decision and thought a lot about which one this character would be drawn to by his nature and life experience. It was not that H was "called" to a deity- it was his heart's call (based, again, on character experience) was answered by a deity.

FWIW, I think that new players should understand that chosing to serve a deity is a serious and vital decision *within the game* that affects the rest of a character's life. It is necessary, then, to decide who to worship through a lot of reading of the available material, through interaction with the followers of that deity (as critical here as IRL), and through careful thought about who this character you have created is, and may become.

- M/H

[1] If nothing else, spending a number of years (some time ago - I'm doing something different now) as a Gardnerian-lineage Wiccan priest does give you the groveling skills necessary for dealing with a High Priestess!

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:43 am

[quote="Hannarr"]FWIW, I think that new players should understand that chosing to serve a deity is a serious and vital decision *within the game* that affects the rest of a character's life. It is necessary, then, to decide who to worship through a lot of reading of the available material, through interaction with the followers of that deity (as critical here as IRL)[quote]

Very right. We wanted to set up some sort of "School of religion", an equivalent for the School of Wonder for priests, but we never managed to find enough time to think more about it, much less to turn it into an area. This area was supposed to be mainly for priests (so the players who made a priest just for the skills and who did not pay any attention to the role behind it could not use the excuse that they did not know what the faith was about anymore), but it could certainly be useful for all characters who want to join a church.

Books can be a good source of information too, obviously: Remember that nearly everybody can get published (as long as it is IC), and books about gods might be a first step toward an area where people might learn ICly about the gods (and players who do not know the Forgotten Realms might find some info to help them choose a deity).

Those books do not have to be list of rules or abstract descriptions of the faith. You know or invented a story that could fit well one of the churches? Why not write it down as a book and/or present it as an example of good behaviour for that church (or even as a description of an adventure in the life of a renowned follower of that church).

As a side note, I highjack this thread to say sorry to those who might be waiting for me in game. I have been spending about 75% of my time working (and the remaining 25% sleeping) during the last month and will most likely have to continue doing this for another month or two.

Algon · Post by **Algon** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:09 pm

Before I chose for Algon to Follow Tempus I did alot or research on all the Gods in the game. Most of this information I got OOCly from the faiths and Panthions book. I tried to find a Deity that would allow for Algon to continue in the line of RP that I had started with him.
I would emplore anyone thinking of following a deity to purchase this book, it has very valuable information on each Deity. It is always good to research things for yourself when trying to make decisions. And sometimes it is very hard to find books on the Gods of the realms. I myself have never been able to find a book in game on Tempus. That is why this book was so helpful.

Now back to the point of people jumping faiths. I could see where some new level 10 player would pray to a Deity that he thinks he would like to follow then meet someone like Andreas and decide he wants to become of knight of Helm. So why not make it to where you must be at least level 20 to get faithed. That way each person has put in atleast a fair amount of time in the game (not just in the temple), so they would have a better idea of who they would like to follow.

I cannot see the joining of a faith just because the Deity is an active one. I have only seen Tempus on once, but that does not mean that he is not there often and just watching. So there is really no way of knowing how 'active' a Deity really is. Just because a certain Deity is not constantly falling from the heavens to pour out his blessing (or curses) does not mean that they are not active.
There is my two cents worth.

Beshaba · Post by **Beshaba** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:04 pm

Llanthyr said: You'll have to admit that after praying and 1 month of waiting, sometimes a question really strikes you. "Is the deity really interested in getting followers at all? Is it worth my time waiting and waiting?"

As an immortal I would like to point out that this line of thought is just as logical, "If you can't wait a month (or possibly more) is it worth my time having you quested?"

Something we see quite a bit is people praying to a god, not getting an immediate answer and turning around and praying to another god. Generally this happens within the scope of a couple of days.

We note everyone who has prayed and their status. If it is noted that you have been praying to multiple gods, it is likely that NO god will take you and your prayers will simply be ignored. All prayers are logged.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:47 pm

If you have only talked to others about the faith, but not actually prayed, can you decide you would rather follow another path?

Fayona · Post by **Fayona** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:24 pm

Supposing that you didnt already tell the people you spoke with you were wanting to join in the path of that god, Then I suppose then I would be alright. There is nothing wrong with going around and learning about the faiths before decieding to join one.

Though if the people of the faith you spoke with, and you told them you were wanting to follow in that gods paths I presume it would be a ic dession of your char if they want to switch or not. Though it would cause questions of the people that you spoke with. Hope that helped at all.
~Fay~

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:01 am

Generally, if you do not pray with your desire to follow a particular god, we will not be aware of that desire.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:32 am

While we are on the subject..... What about this. You pray to a god then leave the game for an extended period of time and come back with the decision that another god is better suited for your characters roleplay? I have a character I think falls in this sort of situation. I made the character probabily about 2 years ago, prayed to a certain evil god then had to cut back(ok basically cut off my mudding time). When I came back I saw a different evil deity that better suited the characters rp. Is this a good enough reason to pray to a different god?

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:49 am

Thanks Fayona, that helped. What about the case of an application with a decision not to pray afterwards? (As in considered the roleplay, decided against it) For example, deciding that an ally of the deity might be a better choice, still allowing interaction with the faith. (And looked at the faiths-that-need-followers list)

*Icks and curses the person who invented the word hypothetical*

Nearraba · Post by **Nearraba** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:14 pm

Sorry I wish I could help you Hviti, with that question, if there was a question but I do not quiet understand what you are asking.

What about the case of an application with a decision not to pray afterwards? (As in considered the roleplay, decided against it) For example, deciding that an ally of the deity might be a better choice, still allowing interaction with the faith. (And looked at the faiths-that-need-followers list)

Though, I might have a little clue about what your are asking. It still implies to every post above. If you have prayed to the god\goddess you should most likely uphold your desire, if not then by all means follow a diety inwhich needs followers. Did that help at all?
Neara

Elwin · Post by **Elwin** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:29 pm

I think what Hviti was asking was if you prayed but then sent in an application about switching gods if that would be alright. I think that would be alright as long as a good reason was proposed. But, if a faith is full and that is the reason for the switch, then usually the admins will contact you oocly in the game. I had a character that I wanted to follow mystra, but because her faith is only questing newbie players right now, I had to change my god.

As far as finding another god that more suits your player, I suppose as long as it was a one time thing, then they wouldn't have a problem with it. You should really do all your research for your character and the god he wishes to follow before you pray though. Remeber, you can pray to a god at any time, but once you pray, you have made a commitment that isn't easily broken icly and oocly.

Change of faith

Change of faith

RE: Change of Faith