Experience

Saradin · Post by **Saradin** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:04 pm

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but has experience been reduced in the game?

I've noticed it in the newbie temple, where I'm lucky to get 1% xp from a mob, sometimes it takes two or three, and I've been told by others that they have been having issues as well where killing multiple (level appropriate) mobs has given little or no xp.

Would just like to get some clarifying info from the staff.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:12 pm

Yes Mask found this bug and updated the temples. Apparently a level 2 or 1 could fight a huge dummy and win, making it to level 6 on one mob.

Saradin · Post by **Saradin** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:19 pm

Well, from what I've been told people have been having issues outside of the Temples.

But also specifically regarding the Temples, while I'm not advocating being allowed to power level, as it is now I'd have to completely clean out the Temple through four respawns to gain a single level (assuming that I get at least 1xp per mob, and it doesn't drop as I level). Given that as far as I know the primary purpose of the newbie temples is to allow new players/characters to gain their first few levels and some low level skills and coin, requiring them to spend days doing it seems a bit excessive.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:09 pm

The change was made over all to exp gains not just the temples. I will see if Mask can review his changes.

Orplar · Post by **Orplar** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:54 am

I have been having the same problem, outside the temple.

Alaudrien · Post by **Alaudrien** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:41 pm

Hmm. I have noticed this same thing. It takes me hours and I mean hours to get halfway from lvl 8 to 9 in the newbie pit. I have also tried at other areas nearby as well and its just as slow..even when I fought mobs that out lvled me.

Orplar · Post by **Orplar** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:15 pm

Well no matter how frustrating it can be, trying to lvl up from a low lvl, to get some coin and such so you can get your char going in some direction...just think

if/until something gets changed, we will all be GM at a few things before we hit lvl 20!

Lukon · Post by **Lukon** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:46 pm

I almost wonder if that's the point to the slowdown...which would be fine, I think. But there's the problem that there's a large 'veteran' player-base, and if we were to go that route intentionally, the gap would become nigh insurmountable...

Aliatris · Post by **Aliatris** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:44 pm

Since I doubt very much that the new experience system is a bug, I propose having an experience multiplyer if you are grouped with one, or more characters, and this multiplier will be increased as more characters are grouped, because you have less chances of using your skills.

I don't know if this already implemented but I have "cleaned" an area (grouped) in which several times I was nearby to lose the head (literally) and after finishing the quest and cleaning the way out, the echo when typing level was still the same.

In the other hand I know that other characters are struggling in the newbie zone for hours, and although having a good amount of money since the beginning is nice, I think that new players will be frustrated if they need to spent so many time there to see the exterior, to the point of quitting and trying other mud.

I suggest for this creating an affect that could be given and removed to characters at will, or with a duration and "strength" defined by a inm. The idea will be having a fountain in the newbie areas where the new characters by drinking from it will get for a brief amount of time this affect and that it could be given to players without noticing them neither been visible if they type "affect".

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:00 pm

Higher exp for groups already exists. The thing with the level echo is that is rounds to quarters, so you may have gain 10% grouped while only 5% however still be in the three-quarters bracket to level.

Aliatris · Post by **Aliatris** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:34 pm

Sincerally I have not noticed any difference between training alone and grouped in experience terms in both scenarios, by training with others characters with more combat abilities than you, they will get the benefit of the multiplier and will do nearly all the work, getting nearly all the experience as result.

I would like to suggest a more dynamic system in which the experience you get is related to the experience you have get in proportion with a real amount of time, this way a person who spend most of his time on the mud killing mobs will be penalized but a character that doesn't do it, he will get a bonus, something like resting system in WoW.

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:10 am

Can I ask what the problem was with gaining experience? I know we had some code hinderences involved in EXp.

1) When you hit level 10 you no longer have recall ability and your exp is set to 0.

(this was the reason

2) apon hitting a level in the 30's.. i think 35. You lose all Excess exp once you train level.

Also, with the mob improvements in once easy areas.. gaining exp was difficult.

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:04 am

While I can appreciate that it can be challenging trying to travel the realms and learn one's way about as a truly new player, I never found it frustrating, just dangerous, and I don't think the leveling rate is too slow. I recall having far too much to learn from the HELPs and so on in the time I spent resting, and got to level 10 too quick to even take advantage of recall. This wasn't as pronounced with my first alt, who is very new and "grew up" under the new rules, but in both cases I found coin the limiting factor in their progress, not experience. But I've never had a mage, perhaps there things are different?

Am I unfair in characterizing those most frustrated by the rate of experience gain as those working on alts, who already know the game very well?

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:22 am

Raona wrote:While I can appreciate that it can be challenging trying to travel the realms and learn one's way about as a truly new player, I never found it frustrating, just dangerous, and I don't think the leveling rate is too slow. I recall having far too much to learn from the HELPs and so on in the time I spent resting, and got to level 10 too quick to even take advantage of recall. This wasn't as pronounced with my first alt, who is very new and "grew up" under the new rules, but in both cases I found coin the limiting factor in their progress, not experience. But I've never had a mage, perhaps there things are different?

Am I unfair in characterizing those most frustrated by the rate of experience gain as those working on alts, who already know the game very well?

It's not just people who are leveling up alts.

I have gotten multiple complaints. Even from a person who was new. Yes it is dangerous to level up too fast, but leveling up too slow is pretty rough as well. A new character I was with can only go a couple rooms before she has to rest. This is a pretty high hinderance and the inability to level to increase this is pretty rough.

Further, if this is not a bug, then the rate at which characters age really needs to thoroughly be re-examined. An Orc, for instance, that should be dead in his mid-thirties, will never even be able to GM second attack before then likely (especially due to the int drop).

Aldren · Post by **Aldren** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:17 am

Why does anyone have to GM second attack, or anything for that matter?
Why should a teenager be able to run 40 miles between Waterdeep and Daggerford without stopping to catch their breath?
In my opinion, the experience drop is a nice change, since it forces RP out of every situation. After a fight, ICly, someone would want to take a moment to focus and regain their breath. You shouldn't ICly be able to cut through 500 goblins at level 10 and being 16 years old, only to wait for another horde of goblins to cut through them once more.
I personally like the way it is now, even if it is a bug, since experience should be harder to gain (for the most part, even though it bogs a character down to have to kill hundreds of mobs to train spells/skills/levels in the long run).

Maybel · Post by **Maybel** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:26 am

I would have to agree with Aldren and Raona. The leveling at a slower rate is just what people need to slow down and RP with each other. Take a breather... Take some company on your journey to Westgate from Waterdeep... stop when tired, rest a while, start a fire, have some warm food... Calm down, and take it slow, remembered. This is a RP enforced MUD... and as it was stated in a a different post, M = MULTIplayer

It can be a bit of a nuisance that I left the training area at level 4 and had to stop every few steps to rest up... and I can't do the Express deliveries probably for a few more days tell I level up... but it gives me a chance to slow down, enjoy the company of the 10-30 other players that are online...

The IMM team are not against us... well... most of the time... They are there to make the game more enjoyable not for a single person, but for all of the FKers...

Saradin · Post by **Saradin** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:27 am

Raona wrote:While I can appreciate that it can be challenging trying to travel the realms and learn one's way about as a truly new player, I never found it frustrating, just dangerous, and I don't think the leveling rate is too slow. I recall having far too much to learn from the HELPs and so on in the time I spent resting, and got to level 10 too quick to even take advantage of recall. This wasn't as pronounced with my first alt, who is very new and "grew up" under the new rules, but in both cases I found coin the limiting factor in their progress, not experience. But I've never had a mage, perhaps there things are different?

Ehmm, I'm not sure we're talking about the same. We're referring to a change in xp that came in just about a week ago. I dunno if it would be possible for you character to "grow up" in that time.

Am I unfair in characterizing those most frustrated by the rate of experience gain as those working on alts, who already know the game very well?

Well, Selveem mentions that he's had new people complain to him as well, but if anything I'd think it would be far more frustrating for a brand new player, as they know nothing about the game except the fact that they're going to have to spend hours a day for several days just mindlessly killing as many dummies as they can so they can reach level 10, just to start roleplaying and looking at guilds and faiths.

In my opinion, the experience drop is a nice change, since it forces RP out of every situation. After a fight, ICly, someone would want to take a moment to focus and regain their breath. You shouldn't ICly be able to cut through 500 goblins at level 10 and being 16 years old, only to wait for another horde of goblins to cut through them once more.

I think if anything it would be detrimental to RP. "Sorry, can't talk right now, I'm going to be spending the next three hours killing every mob I can lay my hands on so I can train magic missile a couple of times!"
In fact I think it will lead to more of your example, simply because that is exactly what people are going to have to do to level and train.

Take a breather... Take some company on your journey to Westgate from Waterdeep... stop when tired, rest a while, start a fire, have some warm food... Calm down, and take it slow, remembered. This is a RP enforced MUD... and as it was stated in a a different post, M = MULTIplayer

Well, as I said above, I think the new xp system will actually make that more unlikely, since you can't 'casually level' anymore from bandits along the road, or getting some friends together to do a quest in an area, now you have to devote far more time and energy specifically to levelling.

Yes, the MUD is meant for RP, but levelling, and gaining the skills that come with levels, does have an effect on your RP.

Lukon · Post by **Lukon** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:28 am

It's also fairly easy to say that from a position where it was significantly easier to hit level 50 and GM various skills.

And excellence is sometimes PART of an RP consideration. Isn't wanting to be the best a common character goal, after all? Whether or not this is a bug, I am personally oppossed to making the system cumbersome for cumbersome's sake.

It's all fine and dandy to say a teenager can't get so great so quick, but considering the rapid time flow of the game, matched with a bit of epic heroism, it's not so big a stretch in a world of magic.

Maybel · Post by **Maybel** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:33 am

Saradin wrote:I think if anything it would be detrimental to RP. "Sorry, can't talk right now, I'm going to be spending the next three hours killing every mob I can lay my hands on so I can train magic missile a couple of times!"

That is true... but it would NOT be so detrimental to say

"Well, I do need to practice my new spells, would you like to join me? Perhaps we could accomplish something together"

but then again... if you WERE going to spend the next 3 hours killing a mob just to level up magic missile... Mystra would be VERY upset with you and the abuse of the weave...

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:34 am

I agree, there are ways around this that are within the current rules, mounts for one can be trained and used for travel, glory and feat points exchanged for more stat points and feat points (Though it is nice to hold onto these for other things) . There are spells that can be learned or people that you can go with to refresh you. Sometimes at lower levels it takes a while to get around, but really there is no rush, sometimes you rest and sometimes you need to hurry. Each square of land outside a city is roughly a mile or 100spans, a hex I believe. It is hard but not impossible. However, things that are unblanced, are constantly being scrutinized and evaluated on issues of faireness.

Though remember...
What should be avoided is direct examples of characters from the game, please avoid naming names here unless they are your pc's and you do not mind citing direct examples. If someone else wishes to offer up their point of view it is avisable to make a forum account and join here. If they do not, that is fine but you should not use them in examples.