Movement in Water

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:10 pm

Currently it takes my warrior (I believe) over 10% movement per 'room' of water. Now, that doesn't seem so bad when one recognizes the distance, but due to the rapid movement of time in Forgotten Kingdoms, it is extremely easy to drown due to the rate of response on water treading. While it seems very realistic that one might have a difficult time swimming so far, what I suggest is that either water treading occurs less often or that movement per 'room' of water be decreased.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:23 pm

Well I suppose I would agree that swimming shouldn't take 10% however I do not know what your str and con is or your swim skill level. I would assume all three are factors.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:35 pm

I have at least 18 con and str.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:11 pm

I think carry weight should factor in.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:36 pm

I disagree. If you have gills and are heavy enough with on bouyancy you could just move along the base of sea floor.

I think because that's too difficult to guess circumstance, it should be uniform but lowered.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:11 pm

I believe armor plays a huge role in swimming. I could be wrong, but even if it doesn't, it should. Carry wt should as well, but since people on FK are naturally pack rats, I think armour should be a bigger component.

Now, Selveem, I disagree with this. If movement rate for swimming was decreased then I think we would see people swimming to Corwell or what not. I don't think I would like to see that.

It SHOULD be easy to drown if you are trying to swim on the wilderness map. Even crossing a major river while swimming should be very hard, depending on the river. We have a fairly narrow river that surrounds the island I live on and people have even drowned trying to cross that.

Thanks,

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:36 pm

People wonder why none of my characters have learned the swim skill. The answer is rather simple, coded in buffer so they don't drown. Water should be respected and feared, not just another room to pass through. As Glim said, even a small, shallow river can kill. The current movement limits seem fine to me. I cannot comment on the weight and armor elements since I am unaware how swim code relates to them.

Balek · Post by **Balek** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:01 am

Nysan, there's a config option now so that you don't swim. It'll prevent those accidental drownings and your characters can still know how to swim if it's necessary.

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:23 am

I'd be interested in the idea of shallows where the water may only come up to the waist. Certain shorter races would still be mired but taller ones should be able to traverse with ease, or some resistance in the event they are bogged down by heavy armours or slowed by movement.

One thing though, this might not be codable since there are thousands of water tiles to go through or it might not be possible without hard code changes or the creation of a new area flag.

In my experience, in real life or in rp, unless you are stripped to the waist you do get bogged down in water as you move through it. Though certainly you should not always drown because you might float in certain circumstances. However if you are fully armoured, there is a good chance you will sink and drown. This could be represented by your stamina ebbing away to zero, or just strain.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:36 am

Balek wrote:Nysan, there's a config option now so that you don't swim. It'll prevent those accidental drownings and your characters can still know how to swim if it's necessary.

Oh, I know. Never hurts to double up. Those that need to cross water do when necessary. Still, I disagree on changing much on swimming's impact on the characters. Water should be water, not just more plains.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:57 am

I agree with Nysan that it shouldn't be changed. As for carry weight vs armor, I still like carry weight because plate-clad people will just strip off the armor and let it "float" in inventory when in the water.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:08 am

Lathander wrote: I still like carry weight because plate-clad people will just strip off the armor and let it "float" in inventory when in the water.

I don't see anything wrong with this. If you were a warrior in full plate you should strip your armour if you wanted to cross a river. I don't think it would be fair though to make people leave their armor on the ground or some such and potentially completely get rid of it just to go swimming.

People HAVE to carry their things on FK because we don't have houses or inns or something similar that we can put our stuff in and not have to worry about it getting stolen. So we tend to amass a bunch of stuff: junk, quest items, quest rewards, food, supplies, sentimental items, etc. If there were tons of IC ways to keep our items safe without having to carry them around, it would be a different story.

Just my opinion on the matter,

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:51 am

Gwain wrote:I'd be interested in the idea of shallows where the water may only come up to the waist. Certain shorter races would still be mired but taller ones should be able to traverse with ease, or some resistance in the event they are bogged down by heavy armours or slowed by movement.

Actually, I believe such places already exist - tiles you can traverse even with CONFIG - SWIM set. They tire you out, but you can't drown in them. Like the creek in Ardeep and the moat around a certain kobold-infested castle. The only downside is that you can't really determine their depth without using the CONFIG option!

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:18 am

Glim wrote:
Lathander wrote: I still like carry weight because plate-clad people will just strip off the armor and let it "float" in inventory when in the water.
I don't see anything wrong with this. If you were a warrior in full plate you should strip your armour if you wanted to cross a river. I don't think it would be fair though to make people leave their armor on the ground or some such and potentially completely get rid of it just to go swimming.

People HAVE to carry their things on FK because we don't have houses or inns or something similar that we can put our stuff in and not have to worry about it getting stolen. So we tend to amass a bunch of stuff: junk, quest items, quest rewards, food, supplies, sentimental items, etc. If there were tons of IC ways to keep our items safe without having to carry them around, it would be a different story.

Just my opinion on the matter,

Off topic - Haven't had the need to use it myself, but isn't there a storage system ingame already? Something about paying a fee and getting a luggage space ? Is that an unfinished system? I know I have come across the place in-game on several trips to certain places.

On Topic - Heavy things do not float well. Several of my characters are well laden with gear and the like, but I do not let that sway my thoughts on keeping water water and not just more plains. I do understand the 'packrat' syndrom and that space can be a premium, but between carts, horses, houses (for some), and the luggage system (I know I saw it!)...is it still a valid complaint?

Weight modifiers is the only fair medium I can think of to keep water water. Perhaps the concern is more space for belongings and not the code of water travel?

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:19 am

Glim wrote: People HAVE to carry their things on FK because we don't have houses or inns or something similar that we can put our stuff in and not have to worry about it getting stolen. So we tend to amass a bunch of stuff: junk, quest items, quest rewards, food, supplies, sentimental items, etc. If there were tons of IC ways to keep our items safe without having to carry them around, it would be a different story.

Actually an IC method for storage of items was introduced a month and a half ago in the Important Area upgrades section in the General discussion forum:

Luggage Services

Ingenious merchants have noticed that many adventurers found it hard to find a good place to store their belongings. They allied together and founded the Luggage Service, a huge Vault where adventurers' belongings can be stored ... for a small fee, naturally.

They decided to have it build in a central place, Shadowdale.

OOC: Currently, each adventurer is limited to one bag, that can contain at most 100 units of weight. You can find out the prices by visiting the Luggage Service in Shadowdale. All those parameters (bag size, prices, ...) might still need to be tweaked.

For now, it's better not to store unique items, till we can make sure that the system works.

That might work.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:47 am

I knew I wasn't seeing things when I saw that place in-game. Not that far gone, not yet anyways.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:51 am

Hmm, I didn't know about that. Learn something new every day.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:47 pm

So I don't have to give out IC info here:

Let's say I play an aquatic race with natural gills. I play a warrior who is heavily clad in some aquatic-based material. I don't need to swim, because I can breathe underwater.

Even in the ocean, the current is not nearly as powerful below as above. Certainly there are some undercurrents, but it would be negligable effect if you fear no drowning.

Because you are no longer fighting the above-water current, it would take far less 'endurance' than 'swimming.' Much akin to swimming upstream as opposed to swimming to the bottom and swimming along the base.

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:07 pm

Hmm, but isn't water something like 800 times denser than air?

So even if you could breathe underwater and were walking the ocean floor, I would guess that you would still use up considerably more energy walking through water than through air.

As it stands at the moment, a character who reduces their carry weight and their armour, who has a good strength and constitution and who has a good level of swim skill can be expected to tread water for several RL minutes without drowning and be able to traverse a dozen or more squares before becoming exhausted (Some 3-400 miles in the Wilderness

).

The current arrangement therefore seems reasonably balanced to me.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:11 pm

Tell that to the denizens of the sea!

I don't see that they are so much different from base humans. I'm looking at aquatic Elves. They don't even get a Con mod. Merfolk get +4 mod. Granted, these races generally would not allow their mobility restricted by such heavy armors. That does not change the fact that it would be much easier to walk along the base of the ocean than try to swim above it with all of the waves. Also, you could walk at your own pace rather than hustle and try so hard just to continue to make progress.