Treatment of friends and allies of other races

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:20 am

First I would like to say that it is WONDERFUL to see people roleplaying elves... well.. as ELVES.

Now for the other shoe to drop...

With a few rare exceptions, just about every elf I've run into on Andreas has suddenly started... well... quite frankly... treating him like dirt. Talk about a slap in the face!

I can understand those with whom he has never been friendly with or that don't ICly know him, but I'm talking about people that I've RPed with for nearly a YEAR. PCs that previously treated Andreas as, if not quite a friend, as a trustworthy and honourable man, have inexplicably become contemptuous, rude and in some cases downright insulting and hostile! The drastic change in roleplay is rather disconcerting and, in my opinion, very poorly done.

There is no rule that elves dislike all other races and treat them like garbage. Quite the contrary when it comes to friends and loved ones.

"Among the more consistent rumors, generalizations, and fallacies about elves are:
- Elves value trees and forests over people and cities.
- Elves and dwarves hate each other by their very natures, since tree roots break up rock and rocks in soil prevent many things from growing.
- Elves treat other races like children and are always condescending and arrogant.
- Every elf is a magic user and has access to all sorts of mystical elven items.
- All elves are great artisans, craftsmen, and weaponmakers, and their works are better than any human craftsman of the same kind."

Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, p. 14

I think what we have now is the problem of going from one extreme to the other. Instead of roleplaying pointy-eared humans, we are now roleplaying all the nasty stereotypes that HUMANS have about elves.

"Humans, the most numerous of the 'short-lives,' are both fascinating and terrifying. From a dispassionate viewpoint, their ease at grasping magic and technology, their unbelievable birthrate, and their ability to adapt to nearly any environment impresses elves. However, their hubris at laying claim to all they survey is idiotic and condescending to any natives already within 'their' lands. On personal levels, elves see humans either as intelligent, friendly folk slightly in awe of them or as bigoted, close-minded hostiles whose only motivations are power and greed and only actions are to fight and kill."

Cormanthyr:Empire of Elves, p. 15

Please, find the balance between the two extremes. And for those of you who have had a sudden epiphany on what it is to be an elf, try not to change like night and day. One thing is certain: elves have long memories and they forget neither good deed nor bad, friend nor foe.

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:29 pm

Something else I have also seek within elves recently is people do not play the psychology of the chosen elven blood. There are three types of elves and this is part of the main psychology of them taken from Cormanthyr:empire of the elves pg 18

Gold Elves - Ar'Tel'Quessir
While they do not rule the majority of the elven colonies across the realms, gold elves take it upon themselves to act as the conservative arbiters of elven civilization, firm in their beliefs that they know what "true elven culture" is. With an inherent bias towards the elves, it is no wonder they are seen as aloof by the N'Tel'Quessir. They may eventually accept the presence (and, in rare cases, the friendships) of N'Tel'Quessir, but the "outsider" has to prove himself twice as hard as any other to gain the gold elf's favor.

Moon Elves - Teu'Tel'Quessir
Moon elves thrive on change and on passions, often seeming like young elves throughout their lives. As often, lives of passion and drive are lived out among the N'Tel'Quess, making the moon elves closest to them. While they seem to live for the thrills of the moment, these elves see the future of all races grimly: They must all learn to get along, or they will all be overcome.

Green Elves (wilf elves) - Sy'Tel'Quessir
Normally reclusive and distrusting, the green elves are accepting of the N'Tel'Quessir simply to lessen the enemies against which they must guard. They keep to themselves, only allowing contact with N'Tel'Quessir rangers or druids.

Unfortunatly I do not have the evermeet book upon me to further the psychology of elves and I do know it speaks better of wild elf psychology but this should be a brief overview to help people understand the difference between the elven bloods.

Sindava · Post by **Sindava** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:34 pm

I tried several times to write a post agreeing with Andreas' comments and reflecting on my own IC experiences, but failed each time as it kept looking like I was criticising other players' RP.

I think what I shall do instead, is to ask that those suddenly aloof elves take a look at the Demihuman Deities Handbook, and the section regarding Corellon Larethian in particular

"Though his martial might is swift and terrible, the soft-spoken Creator of the Elves is ever humble and always open to learning something new, one of his sources of might. He enjoys discovering new philosophies of thought and new methods of action, even from mortals, and he has a keen interest in other cultures"

P121 Forgotten realms : Demihuman Deities

Mingus · Post by **Mingus** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:38 pm

The only problem I see is that in game there is no standardization for the sub races. So a player might want to RP his PC as moon elf one day turn around and RP it as a gold or silvan the next. According to what ever whim or situation arrises. Now We may think that we are all responsible players but we are just accountable for ourselves. Since its up in the air to what sub-species you can be, it would be like giving the PC to another person and have them play as they wish. So there is no firm base as to how the long time RP should go. If I play a dwarf that loves elfs and then I give that PC to another player that thinks all dwarves should hate elves, is it not the same emotional change if you were to play a PC as a moon and then suddenly play it as a gold? If I play a MH dwarf and then suddenly decide he's a Duergar, would that not change my whole persona and they way I veiw others? If I play a Calimshanite and suddenly play as a Thay or Zhentilar, would I not change them same way. True you can't catagorize everyone in the same group equally but their are standards. Just like dwarves are not just short human. or Gnomes are bigger nosed dwarves. Each has their own traits and standards and until it is fully noted in the game as is with the reaces, the sub elven races will not function the same when left to just the players to decide.

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:55 am

Mingus... in regards to your post the first thing wrong with it is that you mentioned giving a PC to another player. You can NEVER do this and there has been SEVERE punishments to people who have done this.

In regards to PCs changing in the extreme you said concerning lifestyles etc there needs to be supported rp. A character you create is an entire persona.. a history and a personality, looks, bloodlines etc is breeded intot his character. They cannot be born in Zhentil Keep one day then suddenly be a native of Thay. That is not the concept of rp.

Kirkus · Post by **Kirkus** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:09 am

Actually Nedylene I believe characters have been auctioned off so to speak. Anyone who has been here longer than me could tell me if I am remembering things correctly or not, please do. But what I rememer is that these situations were closely monitered and regulated. Now as to changing cities that has happened before. It happened to me. I started in Waterdeep and now am from Zhentil Keep. And rp can change from time to time. I was personally stuck in a dungeon for over 2 real life months, you can figure out how many years in the game that is, but the point remains, things happen to characters that can affect the way they are rp'd.

Cherishinar · Post by **Cherishinar** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:03 pm

'Auctioned' Characters are entirely different from giving someone your character. The auctioned characters are Forgotten Realms personalities from the various novels about Forgotten Realms. Those characters are applied for when they become available or they are given out by the staff to people. Either way they are given to someone who has some knowledge of the character in question.

Penryn · Post by **Penryn** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:32 pm

The following are taken from the Complete book of elves, the area for which they speak of Forgotten Realms. I personally see the Grey elves as very open and friendly, the green as very close to one another and isolated, and the golds as aloof and critical to all others. But, each elf from the aspects in their background and role play should follow what trends might come forth.

Sunrise or Gold Elves
The first subrace is that of the gold elves. Some also call them sunrise elves or high elves, although they do not closely resemble the standard high elves and indeed, seem more like gre elves. Gold elves are generally viewed as the most civilized and , at the same time, the most contemptuous of other races. They are the nobility of elves on Toril,(except of course the moonflowers which are viewed often as almost akin to the Golds now.) leading the others elves i nthe elven way.

Moonrise or Grey Elves
The second subrace is known variously as moon, silver or grey elves, although again the name is the main similiartiy to the typircal grey elf. They more closely resemble high elves then grey elves, which is not surprising since the nomadic high elves settled Toril. They are the most common of elves on this world, or at the lesat the variety most often seen by non-elves. Because of their higher tolerance for other races, the moon elves are more likely to become adventurers than are the other elves. Likewise, most half-elves in the realms are descended from moon elves. Although moon elves are consdiered less noble thean gold elves, the Queen of Evermeet is a moon elf.

Green or Wild Elves
The third subrace is roughly equivalent to sylvan elves. They are called wild, green, or forest elves. They deal almost exclusively with other elves keeping any contact with other races to a minimum. Since they try to live far from humankind, they are one of the lesat- seen races of the elves. Although they do not have a kingdom of their own, they permeate every elf nation.
The complete Book of Elves P.25 (copyright TSR)

I will not go into the aspects of the Avariel, drow or sea elves from here. Basically, Silver are the most commonly seen and accepting to humanity. The Golds are more race and very snobbish, careful and noble. They are very close and protective of the "elven way" and wish to keep that in it's proper place and path. The Wilds are rarely seen and very protective. Another place for good quotes upon them is the 3rd book of the Harpers series where the Halfbreed Arilyn has to enter their encampment of Tall Trees...

A little information, I hope this helps some elves out there...

One last thing, Unlike humans which are very different in mindset and aspects... Elves hold certain core values and ways that are so deeply seated and routed they are always there.. This comes party from the reverie, partly from their 2 years of birthing time.. Their community aspect and more then a few other things...

Jeffery
Rper of Penryn

Mingus · Post by **Mingus** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:45 pm

I think you all misread my post. I used the analogy of PC trading to demonstrate how an elfs current attitude might change with out any penalties. Moon one day, Silvan the next and lastly Gold just to revert back to moon and start a new cycle again. Even if no sub-speciese of elves are implemented. At least a guide on the different character traits an elf can display according to their sub- and an enforcement to those RP rules.

Now something to think about. If the sub-catagories were implemented, an elf can be held acountable to his RP if it does not fall under norm for his catagory.

Something else. An elf would detect what catagory another elf might fall under. ie A tall strong gold elf stands here. But any other species would need skills in knowledge nature/history/geography/<?> to discern what sub- the elf is.

Lea · Post by **Lea** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:55 pm

I have been in this situation with Andreas. I have watched those that were friendly turn into something that was complete opposite of what I had rped with previously. This has led to some complications in the rp but they are being worked through.

I just think people need to use their brains and think before they decide to change a characters without any rp reasons for it to be happening.

One more thing before I wanted to mention is that those elves that like to use elven words when speaking in common it is a little bit tactless that is what we have the different languages for. Not everyone knows or has ready access to these words. So just be considerate of those you rp with if you wish to speak elven then use the languages that are coded into the game.

Lea

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:00 pm

Have to disagree with you on the language issue, Lea.

I'm a native English speaker. However, I also speak Spanish passably well, Japanese at about the third grade grammar level and a wee bit of German and Turkish. No matter how well you might THINK you know a language, there will always be unfamiliar terms. Even other native speakers will come across words they don't know!

I think the odd elven word adds a bit of spice to the RP. I might OOCly know what it means, but Andreas most likely doesn't know IC and it has sparked some good RP for him to ask.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:04 pm

If a character is unlikely to know, that means their language skill is not gm'ed, so it's likely they would have to ask anyhow. :) I agree with Lea, that another elf shouldn't have to run to a website to look up something said in elven, especially when the language is coded. :)

~Danica

Lea · Post by **Lea** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:17 pm

The reason why I stated this to begin with is that I have a character that barely understands elven so when she asked the elf if they could speak common they basically started speaking elvish in common. So then when she still didn't understand and asked someone to translate they took offense and got all snotty towards my character. I believe that if you wish to speak elven or any other language use the languages coded into the game. I can understand different dialects and things like that as it makes our characters different but to switch to common only to speak elvish words is not right.

Lea

Treatment of friends and allies of other races

Treatment of friends and allies of other races

On other races......

Elves and their mindset

RE: Language use