Cyric says, OOC, 'First area I'd like to cover is the biggest and concerns everyone. PC's stealing from PC's.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Btw, I'm changing the colour of my says because the glare in my room is REALLY killing me.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'A while ago, we had a rash of players whom though it was alright to create players whom RP was totally based on compulsive stealing.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'ie. Cleptomaniacs'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Now, this is roleplay and there ARE people in the world that are like this, however --'
Cyric says, OOC, 'They end up in little white padded rooms
In FR world, it is much like this.'Cyric says, OOC, 'On an OOC note, this does nothing but hurt the mud. More and more players become equitment hogs and it just creates a hostile mud enviroment.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Also, it's abusive to the code if you hide, get caught stealing, and repeat the process until you retrieve the item you want from someone's inv.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Once or twice is believeable. But five times in a row? Wouldn't you think they would catch you sooner or later?'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Almost to the questions portion. =) Sorry, but this is the largest and more important part.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Now, as for ICly using steal, just remember that it is an aggressive command and should be used as such.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Just like kick and punch, it'll get you hurt. From pc's and npc's alike.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'On the flip-side, I want to stress to others who are being stolen from not to instantly kill the thief.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Instead, roleplay it out.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Once in a while, you will get a twink thief who will run and not pay ANY attention to emotes or says. This would be the situation to stun first, roleplay when the player comes too.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Alright... Those are all the notes I have on Players stealing from Players. Any questions about that topic? Raise your hand, I'll call on you.'
You say, OOC, 'Stun is also an aggressive "tactic" so will the guards side with the thief, with the stunner or will both be subject to the justice code?'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Good question. I believe the guards will side with the thief, because you attacked him. However.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'If he stole something in the city, the guards will see it, even if he is hidden.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'He will be held accountable for the crime "mugging". Unless it is your rp to take matters into your own hands, it would be best to let the Justice System take care of him.'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'Foremost, is it still code abuse to sneak up on the same person AFTER running off and hiding for a little? Say if you try to steal from someone 4 or 5 times in 3 IRL hours or so'
Cyric says, OOC, 'No, that is fine. Giving the character time to react to several muggings is fine. It's when a thief hides, immediatly steals, hides again.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'They are taking advantage of the players reaction time and typing speed for roleplay.'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'Right, secondly. How do the guards react to you if you are killmode nofight, and someone steals from you?'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'Same as stunning someone I would assume, even if the thief starts the aggression through use of steal, but you might be able to clarify'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Steal is aggressive, but only gets a reaction from NPC's.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'From a PC's you will simply see, "Someone tries to steal from you!"'
Cyric says, OOC, 'And you won't attack back.'
A young female elf says, OOC, 'what is an acceptable amount of time after stealing before one can log off? I know not to right after, but how long? I've been waiting 2 hrs rl time, but sometimes I cant'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Alright, back to the question. A good rule of thumb is an hour to two. The longer the better, because some players will send complaints about players stealing and not roleplaying the escape.'
A young female elf says, OOC, 'allright, and I assume it would be the same when stealing from npc's?'
Cyric says, OOC, 'If you stay on for around an hour to two, that gives them ample time to apprehend you. The longer the better, really. But I would suggest an hour to two.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Hm.. Well, it should be, but you can pretty much guess the reaction of an NPC if stolen from. I wouldn't enforce a one hour wait from a steal from an NPC.'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Yeah, alright, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have another steal skill called pickpocket? I mean, I've seen people do this and generally, if it's broad daylight and you're going to steal from someone you bump into them.'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Then lift their wallet-what have you-as you bump into them, how can you rp that with the steal the way it is now?'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'I know, the just do something to get their attention away from their wallet.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Well, you can rp it through use of smotes and emotes, but your right - It's not fair to those who rp it compared to those who simply type steal.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'I'll bring the skill idea up with the other immortals and ask them what they think. =)'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Problem is those who RP it are more likely to get caught, more details are known.'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'well the way steal is set up now, you have to be hidden to really have a chance.'
Mikhail says, OOC, 'Exactly'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'I can't really see the rp going "Someone walks past (Character-X) bumping into (Character-X's) shoulder and staggering.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Only problem I see with that skill is that, if it's a line like "Person bumps into you', then it will automatically set off a red light. Some players will take that and run with it, using knowledge they really wouldn't already have ICly.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'And it's hard to prove what knowledge you have ICly, compared to OOCly.'
Sable says, OOC, 'Depends on your level of skill with steal.'
Rhytania says, OOC, 'osay you have the players alias steal with an emote or two...that way its unique and changeable....'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Yes, but not all players will do that. I think he was suggesting a command that would force them to.'
Mikhail says, OOC, 'Well we aren't really picking pockets anyway since we can't get into "pockets" or "bags"'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'Actually, It is comical that a person can hold so much in their inventory yet still hold 2 things in their hands. And most pickpocketing deals with small items. With steal I've seen people steal a chest full of armor and weapons before.'
Mikhail says, OOC, 'That was my next comment'
Mikhail says, OOC, 'Stealing bags'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Inventory is more or less, what you carry with you. If you have three suitcases going to the airport, how do you carry all three?'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'I think there should be a penalty to skills that take dexterity depending how filled your inventory is.'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'I used my hands, I didn't hold the three and a sword and shield in my hands and battle air port giants =P'
Cyric says, OOC, 'You pull two a short distance and leave the other. Go back for the third, and catch up to the other two.'
A young female elf says, OOC, 'yeah my char can carry 11 things I think, it doesnt seem feasible to me, I try to keep everything tucked away'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'generally I carry all three stacked, but that's mee.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Inventory is just what you carry. It can be set down near you in eyesight.'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'Then what about those who have a full inventory yet still dash about and don't lose things behind?'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'I'd describe as what's in your quickly accessible pockets/hands. Like a shirt pocket, you rhands, and what you drag behind you as well.'
Sable says, OOC, 'Yet when I go to the airport I can carry two suitcases, a purse, a laptop bag and another carryon, my palm pilot, my cellphone, and still make a mad dash to the gates
'A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Last time I went somewhere, I carried five full suitcases, couldn't see where I was going.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'They pay for it in movement points. Alright, I'm getting really sidetracked
(And running out of defenses =P)'Cyric says, OOC, 'Any questions I can answer about Players stealing from Players?'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'Does steal take the weight of anything into account?'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'did we cover any kind of time that a stealer should stay on to allow for a retaliation?'
Sable says, OOC, 'From what I have noticed, it does take weight in to consideration.'
A muscular, almond-eyed male halfelf says, OOC, '1-2 hours, Aegir.'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'Yeah, it does..big-time.'
A short, gray haired male dwarf says, OOC, 'You wear full plate and you'll not be stealing much.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Isaldur, yes. I believe it takes into account how much you are carrying and how much what you steal weighs.'
Mikhail says, OOC, 'Even if you can steal ntire bags, backpacks, etc it is considered bad form correct?'
A keen-eyed male dwarf says, OOC, 'perhaps packs and bags should 'have' to be carried - either by making them wearable on more than one location, or by them having to be held in the hands. You would then have to drop your 'suitcases' in order to pull out your ticket, sword etc *apolo'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Mikhail, if it is rped correctly, I believe bags are fair game.'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'in a way thats how it is now. If your not holding it its open to theft.'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Thats the drawback to keeping things in your inventory as opposed to wearing them.'
Sable says, OOC, 'A lot of stuff comes down to RP and it is the responsiblity of the players to RP things out responsibly.'
You say, OOC, 'I'm hoping a new "slot" for packs, otherwise, I don't see the feasability of a player removing their pack and immediately having it stolen.'
You say, OOC, 'Same thing for getting items out of containers. With the added lag now, a thief can easily see when someone removes something from a container and then immediately steal it.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'New slots have been discussed, but it's pretty much been concluded that you have to sacrifice protection for security.'
Sable says, OOC, 'There are three options for packs, actually, as items are added in to the game. On the body, hold, and on belt.'
A tall young male elf says, OOC, 'So if your wearing something it can't be stolen?'
Mikhail nods at A tall young male elf.
A young female elf says, OOC, 'or on a pet, so someone can kill it
'You say, OOC, 'Why do they take up a chest slot though? Packs are generally worn on the back.'
A keen-eyed male dwarf says, OOC, 'damn this lag. Every time I try any kind of command other than sitting listening mutely I get kicked off. Could I be transported back to my original location? I'm going to have to log if this keeps up'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'On a sidenote, could it be coded so when you pay for something and your money is in the money pouch on you, it does not come out of the peach into your inv, but rather stays in the pouch and whatever leftover change is left goes to your inv?'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Cloaks and capes are also worn on the back, but loosely. The loosely chest slot is, more or less, meant to be a torso slot.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Isaulder, I believe there are money pouches out there like that. Sharni talked about it once, and said it wouldn't be terribly hard to code'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Essentially, spell pouches do the same thing.'
You say, OOC, 'What about thieves taking advantage of the lag time when getting items in or out of containers?'
Mikhail says, OOC, 'There's also a lag on steal, so not so big an advantage on container lag as it seems'
A muscular, almond-eyed male halfelf says, OOC, 'or when it's reduced with quick draw, you can't take advantage of it...(mad props to quick draw here)'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'There is a money pouch that allows you to access money without having it in your inventory, but once you buy, repair, or train. All the money goes into your inventory. At most it just saves lag time on not having to take money out manually'
Cyric says, OOC, 'A good question, Andreas. Frankly I don't have an answer for it. Players that take advantage of that lag time are very gutsy if they steal from you in the city.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Isaldur, I'll ask Sharni about that. It might be a bug that it ejects all the coin into your inv.'
You say, OOC, 'What about thieves who consistently find an OOC excuse to log off once they have been caught or those who don't being "physically" caught and then hide and sneak away?'
You say, OOC, '...don't RP being "physically" caught...'
Mikhail says, OOC, 'You mean were caught but ignore the RP?'
You nod.
You say, OOC, 'In the latter case, I am imagining they are desperately typing hide until they are well hidden and not bothering to RP.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Both cases should probably be reported to the Admins. The ones who ignore the RP, I suggest stunning them and rping with them afterwards. When they can't run.'
You say, OOC, 'But in a city you can't stun them.'
A young female elf says, OOC, 'but make sure they dc on perpose, some of us get dc on a regler basis and log right back on soon as we have rebooted'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Correct, but if they were caught, guards will see them. The guards will go report the crime and the character will be held for the crime "mugging"'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'and remember if you had a thief try to steal and fail, you can report it now just like the mobs do.'
You say, OOC, 'I generally give people until they hit the void to reconnect, but a few times I've had other PCs osay "gotta go" or something like that and log off... then I see them back on the who list after about 10 minutes.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'I dunno what to say about those other than keep them in mind. The best thing you can do is ruin a thieves reputation.'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Thats a role I think thieves guilds should be filling.'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'guilds usually moniter criminal activity, and take action on those who may bring too much attention.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'As for those who "gotta go" because of OOC issues, that should not be an excuse. If they steal, they should do so with the foresight that they will have enough time to RP the stealing.'
A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'a very good point'
Sable says, OOC, 'I would like to take a moment to point out that in Waterdeep, the thieves are going to be particularly sensitive to this. The Open Lord before Piergrion hunted down and slaughtered all of the thieves in the City'
Isaldur says, OOC, 'I.E. Kicked the Shadow Thieves out'
Sable says, OOC, 'So anyone actively causing trouble is asking to be sent to sleep with the fishes.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Hope it answered your questions, Andreas. Very good ones, by the way.'
You say, OOC, 'Are there IC guilds that actually do monitor theiving activities? Usually a guild controls a certain amount of territory and then conducts activities such as begging, pickpocketing, housebreaking, racketeering and smuggling.'
A massive, muscular male human says, OOC, 'Not really no, but personally I think that should be one of their roles.'
You say, OOC, 'Oh, and let's not forget fenching
'You say, OOC, 'fencing even'
Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'Sorry, lagged, so it might have been answered before. But I would say a big NO to stealing a bag that a character has put something in or taking something out of. The character is paying attention to the bag, and you cannot steal it without being ca'
Garl Glittergold says, OOC, 'The character is paying attention to the bag, and you cannot steal it without being caught.'
Sable says, OOC, 'Well, because of the thing with the Shadow Thieves there is no formal guild in Waterdeep... but that does not mean no one is keeping an eye on things ICly.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Guilds are being set up in each city, slowly but surely. Even if the city does not have a PC thief watching over things, doesn't mean one of us imms won't step in and "fix" things.'
A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'I'd say you can steal the pack if you use some kind of diversion after they're done with the pack'
A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'like having them look at an item'
Cyric says, OOC, 'Hmm. A good point, Shank. Just remember, you might draw attention with that diversion, though.'
You say, OOC, 'Are there any plans to add in items that could be exclusively used for thief roleplay such as smuggling smoke powder or stolen works of art?'
A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'yes, there is always a chance to draw attention'
A jittery male orc says, OOC, 'it's why if you see something that you want to steal, you should follow them with stealth and rob them later'
Cyric says, OOC, 'There are a few items (as well as a few areas) exclusivly for thieves. They were very well made and a few more would seriously make thief roleplay better.'
Cyric says, OOC, 'I am told that several areas are actually in the making with thieves in mind.'